US Education Secretary Miguel Cardona on Politics, Pandemic Fatigue and Keeping Kids Safe in School

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

[Music]
Marianne O’Hare: The brightest minds in health policy and innovation, interviewed by
leaders in community health. This wee k Conversations on Health Care
welcomes Education Secretary Mig uel Cardona , on the impact of
COVID - 19 and the need for stabili t y in American schools .

Mig uel Cardona : We have worked closely with all sta tes to make sure that that
message is there. We supported our superintendents that are making
decisions to protect students and sta ff , and will continue to do that.

Marianne O’Hare: Now , here are your hosts Mark Masselli and Margaret Flinter on
Conversations on Health Care .

M ark Masselli: This is Conversations on Health Care . Our guest is U . S . Education
Secretary Mig uel Cardona , who holds the nation ’ s top education job
as America ’ s s ch ools tackle the COVID health challenge and the
learning losses it ’ s created.

Margaret Flinter: Secretary Mig uel Cardona first gained nation al attention while servi ng
as Connecticut Education Commissioner where he navigated the safe
return of students to c lassrooms in his state. Secretary Cardona has
been a teacher a nd a principal, fulfilling President Biden ’ s promi se to
put an educator in the nation ’ s top education job.

M ark Masselli: Thank you so much for joining us.

Mig uel Cardona : Hey, g reat to be with you b oth , Mark and Margaret. I ’ m glad to be on
this show , and honored to be able to engage in a conversation about
a topic I love so much , our kids and our schools .

M ark Masselli: Absolutely. You know, se ven school boards are challenging Virginia
Republic an Gove rnor Glenn Youngkin ’ s executive order banning mask
mandates in schools , and the school boards say masks are neede d to
ensure the safety and welfare of all students. What ’ s your take on this
situation, an d is there anything that your department can d o?

Mig u el Cardona : Yeah. Well, you know, my message from day one ha s been very clear ,
and by ‘ day one ’ I mean Ma rch 2020 , before I was Secretary of
Education , when I was Commissioner o f E d ucation. And it stems from
my feelings as a father , you know. T her e is nothin g more valuable to
me than my own children , and their safety , and their health. Right?
So, one thing we did early on , and part of the reason why Connecticut
was successful in safe ly reop ening the schools, is we relied very
cl osely on our health ex perts. I t is a health pan d emic. W e need to
keep it in th e hands of our health experts . I had more con versations
with epidemiologists than with my own family members for so many
of those months, and the reason why we did that is because they
have an unde rst anding of how disease spreads and how t o keep
ourselves safe. Right?

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

That hasn’t changed. I think what has changed is the fatigue across
the count ry. W e are two years in. I remember planning for two weeks
of disrupted learning . W e are in our second year . So t he fa tigue has
increased. I also think politi zation of many of the strategies to keep
our families and our schools safe . I t ’ s become political in so many
places , and I think intentionally , a nd that’s unfortunate. So, the
leaders and educat ors toda y hav e much mo re to contend with. T hey
have not only the pandemic , but al so growing fatigue and p olitics
getting in the way of good p ubl ic health pol icies .

So , what we have done , it ha ppened when the Delta spike happened
if you recall. You know, that hap pened maybe two week s before
schools started in th e fall. W e really were very strong at the Federal
Department of Education , communica ting that it is the responsibility
of our superintendents and ou r boards to protect o ur st u dents and
our sta ff. Safe working env ironment, safe learning environment is
critical , and we still believe that , a nd we have worked closely with all
states to make sure that that message is there. W e supported our
superintend en ts that are making decisions to protect students and
staff , and we ’ ll contin ue to do that.

I think really everyone wants our kids i n scho ols. W e all know the
benefits of in - person learning. W e have to leave public health to the
experts . But I also understand we are all fatigue d. W e all want a day
when masks are not requ ired , but right now we know e spe ci ally with
Omicron we have to do everything in our power to keep our children
safe , and that’s following those medication strategies that the CDC
recommend s .

Margaret Flinter: Well Secretary , thank you for those comments . M asking ha s been
polarizing , mandatory mask ing in schools has been a polarizing issue,
but now, th e Los Angeles and th e Washing ton DC school districts are
putting in place COVID vaccine ma ndates for students. I thi n k they are
set to begin soon. I imagine th is will a lso create quite a bit of
controversy . W hat are your thoughts about keepin g students out of
school if they are not vaccinated ?

Mig uel Cardona : You know, I talked to the mayor of New Orleans maybe three - four
week s ago when I was visiting New Orlean s schools , and we had a
conversati o n about th is . S he too was implementing a requirement for
va ccination s for students in the schools . A nd I recognize that vaccines
ar e the mos t important tool we h ave. I t really i s, to prevent di sease
spread, and to prevent sever ity , to keep children out of hospitals , to
keep communities safe, not just for the student that’s vacci nat ed, but
for their vu l nerable family members , or those in our community who
are un able to get va c cines even if they wanted to.

Y ou know, with re gard to t he require ments, those are local and state
decisions . I think state leaders and local leaders need to understand

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

the implications of that . I strongly encourage not only vaccines , but
also that our school s have a role in promoting vaccinati on. W e h ave
setup clinics throug hout our country. I have visited man y with Dr.
Murphy and others just to promote the importance of schools having
a role here, pediatri cians having a role partnering with schools . A s far
as the man dates are concerned , or the la ws , I will lea ve that u p to the
local officials. B ut I do know that in places where vaccination
percentages are higher , ther e is less disruption to school , and there ’ s
less hospita lization , which is obviously the goal for any parent to
pro tect your child.

Mark Masselli: And to pro tect y our child is so important. Mr. Secretary, you know
that our organization here in Connecticut operates school - ba sed
health centers across the state , provi ding care to 17,000 students,
including their mental health needs , b ut in the entire c ountry only a
fraction of students receive th at type of service. But there is good
news I hope, or hope is on the way . T he b ipartisan Hallways t o Health
Care Act has been int roduced in the Senate . I t would lead to greate r
investment in sc hool - base d health centers. I ’ m wondering is there
anything else the admini stration can do to push this idea.

Mig uel Cardona : Sure , yeah . I know a little bit about what you do , in my previous role s
an d you know, having people that I know very well working with in
com munity h ealth center . T he re ality is the days of us thinking t hat
our schools are places where it ’ s only abo ut reading, writing and
arithmetic , those are long gone. W e need to think holistically about
o u r children. I was fo rtunate to serve in the Meriden p ublic sc hools
for over 23 years, a nd I saw as the needs progressed with our
students we needed to evolve in our thinking. A nd you know, the
part nership with the community health center to provide support
services , mental and behavioral support services to students , dental
services , just the health needs of o ur students , they are present in our
schools. So the more we can remove barriers by providing good
partnerships with community or ganizations like a community health
center that provides some of these ser vices, t h e better the students
are able to learn , and we can focus on teaching and learning .

So, I ’ m encourage d by the growing senti ment , bipartisan sentiment,
that we must care for the hol istic needs of our s tudents . And at the
Department of Edu cation we haven’t been sitting id le waiting for this
to happen. Day one, we made it very clear that as we are thinking
about how to ut i liz e the $130 billion that the President and Congress
passe d for the American Rescue Plan, safe school reopening obviously
is the priority . So, ensuring you have PPEs, ensuring you have all the
tools you need to safe ly reopen . But the second thing on our list and
on purpose was the social - emotional wellbeing of our students and
our staff. Often times we leave that ou t.

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

Our students, their fa milies, and our educat ors, our dedicated
educators, we have all e xperienced trauma. So , ensuring that as we
reopen our school s we reimag ine the role of social and emotional
we llbeing , access to men tal health supports . So , we have really
prioritize d it. We released a first of its kind support manual for
districts in their language, not in g overnment speak, not in
bureaucratic language, in their language , on how to implement
mental health supports, how to learn from colleagues across the
country , and in each of our reopening guid ance documents we
emphasize the importance of mental he alth and social and emotional
wellbeing.

So, for me, it ’ s critically important that as we reopen and rei magine
schools , we don’t go back to what it looked like before whe r e it was
insufficient . W e must design and embed within our reopening
st rategies social and emotion al sup port s for students , and access to
ment al health support. So , we have enco uraged use of ARP fund s for
that , w e have provided guidance , w e live the best practices, and we
are going to continue to p ush so that the ARP money is b eing used for
those reasons , for those purposes.

Mark Masselli: Gr eat.

Margaret Flinter: Well Secre tary , t hank you for those comments . And we certainly have
seen an evolution in many ways over these last 15 or 20 years as you
say . One of the changes that we saw this year, over the last two years
really, was the level of engagement of parents , and ofte n very
unhappy parents, around some of these issues in the schools , around
masking , a nd around the respo nse to COVID , and it kind of raise d the
ques tion of who do the p ublic sch ools really belong to . A nd there ’ s
been some debate popping up that we need to do better at listening
to parents , though I know you have al ways tried, and that pare nts are
re ally the clients of public sch ools. Is that t he right world view to have
that the parents are the clients and that’s who t he school sys tems
really have to or ganize around? What have been your thought s since
you have watched this unfold over the l ast two years ?

Mig uel Cardona : You know, I have s ee n President Biden articulate it very clearly . N ot
only did he start as President during a pandemic , but during a time
when our country was d ivided , and he aimed to restore the soul of
our country and br ing folks toge th er. I mean the work to get to the
bipartisan infrastructure plan, demonstrates the commitment o f
working with d ifferent perspectives . And we still have ways to go.
T here are lot of folks that are divided on ce rtain topics, whether it ’ s
mask s m andates , or whatever. I t ’ s really important that w e recognize
that schools unite .

S chools are hubs of the community that bring people together , an d
it ’ s really important a s we reopen schools an d re ally think about the

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

next cha pter of what education loo ks like across the country, that we
are not li mit ed by listening only to those who share our thoughts , that
we ent ertain the various perspectives that exist , and understa n d that
there is a lot of emotion behind it , there is a lot of passion behin d it.
But , it ’ s the American thing to do to listen to different perspectives
and come toge ther especially around our students, arou nd our
children , to improve educ ation. So , I think it is important that all
families have access to be heard , and that different pe rsp ecti v es a re
tak e n into account.

At the end of the day it ’ s critically important also that we have boards
of education that represent families . In many cases, es pecially in the
exp eriences that I have had, board members are e lected and they
represent the diffe rent parts of the community. So , we must
reco gnize that democrac y prevails , and that we have a s ystem set up
where we should be listening to pare nts. But I al so would argue we
need to be listening to our students, and make sure that their voice is
bei ng tak en int o account as we think about how to reimagin e
education. O ur students have experienced this firsthand and they also
have say in what education should look like moving forward.

Mark Masselli: Well , that’s such a good observation , that American so lution is really
going to require listening to voices across the spectrum inc luding that
of teachers . But , you know, you bring an interesting pers pective to
Washington, and I wonder if you might reflect a little on it. Y ou know,
you were a teacher, a princ ipal, and also you r experience as an English
language lear ner. H ow have all those helped shape your thinking as
you lead this really very important department at an important time
in American history ?

Mig uel Cardona : You know, it ’ s a time that requires the abili ty to proble m solve with
those whose perspectives are different , to engage with people with
whom yo u don’t typically engage . As I mentioned, I became good
friends with epidemiologist s over the la st two years, something that I
ne ver learned in prepara tory s chool fo r education. But I will give
credit to Meriden , Connecticut , the city where I was born and raised,
where I w ent to school. I t ’ s a such diverse commun ity. And as a
second lang u age learner, I learned English seco nd , and living in a
communit y t hat’s s o diverse , and myself being bicultural , I u nderstood
how to code - switch and culture switch and understand different ways
of doing things. T hat helped me during the pandemic unders tand t he
different perspectives and keep that mentality that just bec au se
som eone doesn’t think like you doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be
heard, or that they don’t bring value to the table.

I think that’s what the Pre sident was looking for, some one that can go
into the moment and recognize that there is no easy linear sol ution to
this , but is willing to engage different folks, listen, and come up with a

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

solution that is best for students , number one, and that can lead our
country forward. So, the bi culturali sm I always say is the superpower
and an asset for me. Coming from a ver y di verse community and then
bein g educated and having the opportunity, the priv il ege to serve as
an educator in a co mmunity that’s as diverse as ours , in m y op inion,
were really good prerequisites to the problem solving and what I call
intenti onal c oll abo ration that I do toda y as Secre tary of Education.

Margaret Flinter: Well, it ’ s great to have educators like yours elf in top p laces in
Washingto n right now . And we also have another person in pretty
high place s who comes from education, and that’s Fir st Lad y Dr. Jill
Biden who ’ s still teaching at a community college today even as First
Lady . A re you getting any feedback or adv ice from Dr. Biden on what
we should be doing in education an d what you should be doing?

Mig uel Cardona : Yeah, she ’ s great. Who better than her to really show what educat ion
can be and just be such a great advocate for the education system ? I
always say my job is easier bec ause the best a dviser to the President
is an ed ucator . And you know I had the privi lege of traveling wi t h th e
F irst Lady last we ek. W e visited a school, a community college to
announce , not only to see the great work they are doing but also to
announce $ 198 million in grants to help support basic needs of
students so that they can go to school, ne e ds like chil dcare , nee ds like
food in se curit ies .

So , we were announcing this , and you know, in my conversatio ns with
her it ’ s very clear we need to make sure that we are provi ding
opportunities for all students to go to sch ool to study, t o reach their
potential . And I know she ’ s st ill teaching, and I know her passion for
education across the count ry stems from the inspiration she gets from
her students. So, it ’ s always great to have conversations with her , to
talk about education and our path forward in our co untry.

M ark Massel li: Well, Mr . Secretary, we want to t hank you for joining us , and hope we
will have you at some t ime in the future . And thanks to our au dience
for joining u s for this important talk. Y ou can learn more about
Conversations o n Health Care and sign u p on our e mail at
www.chcradio.com . Mr. Secretary, thank you for your leadership,
your inspiration , an d the work that you do , o n behalf of all Amer i c an
citizens.

Mig uel Cardona : Th ank you Pre sident Masselli and Vice President Flinter for the
conversation , but more importantly , for the work y ou do to promote
health across our community, across our state, and acro ss our
country . [Inaudible 00:17:06 ]

Mar garet Flinter : Thank you Secre tary .

Mark Masselli: Thanks to everybo dy .

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

[ Music ]

Mark Masselli: At Conversations on Health Care we want our audience to be truly in
the know w hen it comes to the facts about he alth care reform and
policy. Lori Robertson is an award - winning journalist and Managing
Editor of FactCheck.org, a no npartisan, nonprofit consumer advocate
for voters that aim to reduce the level of deception in U.S. Politic s.
Lori, what have you got for us this week?

Lori Robertson : President Joe Biden has said his administration will provide one billion
fre e at - home ra pid COVID - 19 tests to Amer icans s tarting in late
January , and retail outlets have been selling out of these antigen
tests. Let ’ s take a look at some common questions about these tests.

The rapid antigen tests are vir al tests that check for the presen ce of
SARS Co V - 2 vir al proteins in a sample from a person ’ s nose or mouth ,
t o help determine if the person is currently infect ed with the
Coronavirus . S ome of these require a prescription, but the ones
people are most familiar with are these self - tests that can be
purcha sed over - the - counter and can be performed entirely at home ,
with the person taking their own sample, running the test, and
read ing out the result within 15 to 30 minutes.

The tests are similar to preg nancy tests , in that they de tect pro teins in
a specimen using antibodies embedded in a test strip. 13 fully at -
home over - the - counter antigen tests now have FDA authorization.
T hese types of tests are g enerally reliable , but they aren ’ t as sensitive
a s molecular diag nostic t ests , such as the PCR test w hich can take
hours o r days for people to get their results. A positive result on a
rapid antigen test is very likely to be correct, but a negative test
doesn’t necessarily mean someone isn ’ t infected. T he tes ts are more
accu rat e in people with symp toms , c ompar ed w ith someone who
doesn’t have sympt oms.

It is not yet known how well rapid antigen tests fa r e against the
Omicron vari ant , a lthough most test s are able to detect it . W hi le
some early lab tests suggested a possible reduction in sensitivity, so
far clinical testing of patients show the an tigen tests perform simil arly
agains t Omicron as previous vari ants , t he Director of the National
Institute Of Biomedical Imaging a nd Bioengineering told us . H owever ,
Omicron infections appear to have a shorter incuba tion peri od or
length of time from exposure to first sympt om, which could mean
peo ple are testing sooner after inf ection than they were previously .
That could make it appear that the tests are less sensitive even if they
aren’t .

In addition t o the Federal governme nt ’ s new COVID tes t s .gov website ,
th ese rapid tests are sold th rough retail stores and online and some
local governments are also offering them to their res idents. The CDC

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

suggest s taking one of these tests before gather ing indoors with
people fro m other h ouse holds .

That's my fact check for this week. I'm Lori Robertson , M anaging
Editor of FactCheck.org.

Margaret Flinter: FactCheck .org is committed to factual accuracy from the c ountry’s
major political players , and is a project of the Annenberg Pu blic Poli cy
Center at the University of Pennsylvania. If you have a fact that you
woul d like check ed , email us at www.chcradio.com . We’ll have
FactCheck .org’s Lori Robertson check it out for you here on
Conversation s on Heal th Care.

[Music]

Mark Masselli: E ach week Conversations highlights a bright idea about how to make
wellness a part of our communities and everyday lives. Students of
public health are often tasked with devising interventions for
addressing some of health ’ s biggest challenges , and for Harvard T . H .
Chan School o f Public Health students Dan Wexler a nd Priya Patel ,
their idea netted an award, and launched a business idea at the same
time. T he s tudents were tasked with addressing food ins ecurity in
unde rserved p arts of the world , including neighborhoods in their own
backyard , families living in high poverty, low resource area , and
finding fresh, affordable, healthy food in neighborhoods with no
grocery stores or food markets. They thought of the current t rend of
healthy meal or meal s services like Blue Apron and wondered what if
we modified that business model to serve the needs of those living in
food deserts.

Wexler and his partner sourced food delivery companies that could
pr ovide prepackaged meal kits with al l ingredients included , even
spices, dressing s and recipes . And i nstead of home delivery approach,
they design ed refrigerated kiosks that could easily be placed in local
neighborhoods. Wexler says they wanted to make the idea of healthy
eating and meal pre par ation as simple as possi ble.

Dan Wexler: I think the biggest change is that t here is no delivery system door to
door per se , and that by going and settin g up these kiosks in the
community you can have a very lean design. You ca n have -- you don' t
need a storefront , y ou don’t need to pay for shipping, you don't need
to have inbox refrigeration , and you are very much addressing the
need of access by physically saying, “ Hey , here is healthy food. It's
con venient because everything you need is in the box. ” T he directio ns
are simple , are very picture - based. T here is a lot of literacy issues . And
so just really thinking about how can we take all those lean design
principles to facilitate access that really I think mak e it a solution that
has a potentia l for imp act .

US Educat ion Secretary Miguel Cardona

Mark Masselli: And t hey also cond ucted research with local ethnic groups to create
recipes that would resonate with their families.

Dan Wexler: Then we just went down to the community and did taste testing at
the farmers market and talk ed to people an d said, “ Do you like this?
What do you w ant to be able to eat for dinner? How do you want to
cook? ” So b asically , we have some dishes that have similar texture,
similar spices. One thing that we found is the r e is a little bit of
contention between pa rent s who want to eat more tradition al foods
and kids who want to eat more American food , and we tried to
alleviate that and bri dge those gaps. So , one of our reci pes for
insta nce i s a chicken pot pie pasta . So, it ’ s kind of American , it ’ s fun -
sou nding, bu t also , we use a lot of traditional seasonings and spi ces.

Mark Masselli: Customers can simply walk to the kiosk and purchase their meal kits
with the SNAP cards or cas h . And they added benefits. The kiosk will
be run by the residents of the neighborhood, g iving them an
opportunity to purchase the kiosk and run them like a franchise ,
offering an economic benefit to the community as well.

Their idea earned them the Rabobank - MIT Food and Agribusiness
Innovation Prize and $15,000 in startup money to launch the ir
en terprise . A low cost, portable healthy meal service, placed in
portable kiosk in food desert neighbor hoods, offering families a
simple solution to address the problem of poor nutrition, providing an
economic opportunity at the same time . Now that's a brigh t idea.

[Music]

Mark Masselli: You've been listening to Conversations on Health Care. I'm Mark
Massel li.

Margaret Flinter: And I'm Margaret Flinter.

Mark Masselli: Peace and health.

Marianne O’Hare: Conversations on Health Care is recorded at WESU at Wesle yan
University, streaming live at www.chcradio.com , iTunes, or wherever
you listen to podcasts. If you have co mments, please e - mail us at
[email protected] , or find us on Face book or Twitter. We love
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