TV’s Jane Pauley’s Personal Story: Why Community Health Centers Matter to Her

Jane Pauley

[Music]
Marianne O’Hare: Welcome to Conversations on Health Care . This week we welcome
Veteran Journalist and Host of CBS Sunday Morning , Jane Pauley ,
who's renowned advocate for mental health. She's joined by
colleague Mar c Hackett, who runs more than a d ozen Indiana
community health centers named after her.

Jane Pauley: I kind of choked up at the invitation to put my name on that single
clinic and six months later, I was cutting ribbon for the Jane Pauley
Community Health Clinic.

Marianne O’Hare: FactChec k.org’s Lori Robertson checks in , and we end with a bright
idea. Now here are your hosts Mark Masselli and Margaret Flinter.

Mark Masselli: Jane Pauley has built a trusted legacy with American TV viewers since
she first appeared on The Today Show . Her boss once complimented
her on an even keeled personality in an industry known for big egos.
In recent years, Jane has opened up and shared details about her
health issues and that openness has created even more connections
to all of us. Her link to health incl udes lending her famous name to the
Jane Pauley Community Health Center in Indianapolis.

Margaret Flinter: Also joining us today to talk about the important work of the Jane
Pauley Community Health Center is CEO Marc Hackett. They have
been awarded F ederal ly Q ualified health centers status . They now
have 12 sit es in four counties of Indiana.

Mark Masselli: Well, Jane is on , Jane and Mar c , welcome to Conversations on Health
Care . You know, Jane, you grew up in Indianapolis, you went to
Warren Central High Sc hool, graduated in 1968 , and you probably
weren't thinking back then that the community would honor you with
the naming of a community health center after you. I wonder if you
could tell us about how that naming came about.

Jane Pauley: I wasn't anticipati ng anything that transpired as a getting a job much
less career, marrying a cartoonist, the diagnosis at the age of 50 , and
much less the clinics with my name on it. The original clinic is about
no more than a mile from where I grew up. So I am very much a
hometown girl. I'm – you're – you're to know my high school, Warren
Central. When I was i n high school at Warren in 1968, when I
graduated, we were powerhouse in no athletic endeavor, but in
speech and debate big time and so I had gone back in Gosh, I don 't
even know exactly what year it was , seven or eight years ago. But to
celebrate the first state speech and debate champions in 40 years
since my era , and after we posed for that yearbook picture, the
S uperintendent of the school introduced herself with a folder under
her arm , and she said, and “ Jane, we've got a proposal for you and I'm
not asking for money. ” But then she explained that they were building
a health clinic, a community clinic in a school . I knew that there were

Jane Pauley

school based clinics all over the country. But this was a community
clinic that happened to be in school because she had a school with
space and I knew a little bit about community clinics, I had some
experience and it brought , I literally I kind of choked up at the
invitation to put my name on that single clinic , and six months later, I
was cutting a ribbon for the Jane Pauley Community Health Clinic. And
nobody anticipated that there would be a dozen or more in the future
credit for that goes to Marc Hackett and his team and so that' s how it
happened.

Margaret Flinter: You know, you've been a pioneer and a groundbreaker in many ways
in the course of your career and one of the ways you've been a
pioneer is in speaking openly about bipolar disorder and this has
really made a difference, I think, for our country . Could we ask you to
tell your story so that we make sure that those who haven't heard it
have a chance to hear?

Jane Pauley: Yeah , I'm not famous for long story short, so I'll try to keep it short.
But Mar c , when you said that I had a former boss , what he specifically
said was that Jane Pauley had the best mental health in the business ,
and this was a no other category what he has said th e best anything in
the business, but at that time [inaudible 00:04:35] humbly agreed. I
had a reputation for being normal and normal was an adjective that
would be used in profiles of me, and I've got the clips to show for it
until I was 50 years old, and I had a medical encounter that really
revealed and unmasked an unrecognized genetic vulnerabil ity to a
mood disorder. So I was not bipolar when I was 49. But when I was
50, boom, I was and I am. But as a journalist, I learned everything I
knew about mental health, pretty much in the mid to late 90s, the
President Bush does, you remember declared th e decade of the brain,
I did not have known family history, family secrets can sometimes be
the same. But so everything I knew about bipolar, I pretty much
learned as a journalist and recognized that with my reputation, and at
the age of 50, stood little t o lose, and had a big opportunity when I
got better , and I knew, eventually I would, that I would tell a story
that it had some potential to have some impact. I didn't exaggerate
the potential impact. But it has been a very important advocacy role ,
and I t hink one of the reasons that I was invited to in to share my
name was because the first Jane Pauley Community Health Clinics
would have the behavioral health component and that perhaps
knowing my story, would invite people to ta ke advantage of those
servic es.

I've since learned that most people who take advantage of the
services that Mar c and his team offer don't know who Jane Pauley is
or was, they're just – they’re just glad that those clinics are there for
their use when they need them.

Jane Pauley

Mark Masselli: W ell, thank you for throwing that pebble into the pond because it's
washed across the shore of so many people all across the country ,
and I love the fact that you were saying a cut one ribbon, and then all
of a sudden they're 13 , and they grow , they prolife rate. Our health
th
center, w e're celebr ating our 50 Anniversary this upcoming year ,
and we know that story. You know, I'm struck, though that even and
Mar c probably knows this as well. But Jane , you go down the street
from the health center and people don' t really understand the value
that community health centers provide across the country and
nationwide a s you may know health centers care for 30 million people
yet they're the least known health system in the country and we are
so appreciative that you've lent your name . Any thoughts about how
this good work that pebble that gets thrown into the pond could help
spread the message?

Jane Pauley: Well, that's one of the reasons I go back and cut ribbons though I
don't have any role to play in the provision of services. I'm not a
health care professional or an even professional advocate. But I
absolutely know that if cutting a r ibbon at the new center in Osei,
Greenfield, which happened to be my father's hometown, if that is an
opportunity to discuss community h ealth clinics, then by all means,
you know, roll camera . But it also shows proliferation of clinics and in
Central Indiana and especially the E ast side of Indianapolis, where I
grew up, tells you about the need because access to health care in our
country is a barrier to health care . And if people can't get to the
hospital, get to the ER where as we know, overused services around
the country, then that is a barrier to their getting health care. Opening
a clinic in their community means that they actually ha ve access to
to p quality doctors, nurses, oral, and behavioral care. So it really Mar c
has revealed how necessary and those services and how missing
apparently, that they previously were people need them.

Margaret Flinter: Yeah, Jane, as you've pointed out , you're not a healthcare
professional, but you bring such a valuable perspective as a patient
perhaps first and as a journalist, but we're looking at surveys, a recent
one that showed less than three and five Americans trust the U . S .
healthcare system, an d that was a significant drop over these last two
years. What do you think we in healthcare need to understand about
what people need from us right now? What's missing beyond access?
Where does this lack of trust come from do you think?

Jane Pauley: I'm go ing to say, I don't trust that survey. I think it's a little like the
way people feel about the media. I think the media probably does a
lot worse than in those polls , and yet people trust their local news
teams. I like the people that I watch, who tell me what the basketball
score was. They trust their own and I will wager that the people who
mistrust the nation's health care system very much trust the doctors
and nurses at their doctor's office or their community clinic or their ER

Jane Pauley

that that on a local on e to one basis. I like mine. I just don't trust
those other ones. That's my read.

Mark Masselli: You know, that's such a stretch , great observation. I think we've heard
it that I hate Congress , but I like my congressman or a woman who's
there. I think ther e is a problem, though , and I think over the last
couple of years, there's been sort of a general distrust of public health
in some ways, not completely and across the board, but it does have
people I guess, questioning, should I get the vaccine and the ot her
thing, is it any thought about how we've tried to find the seam of
cooperation amongst disparate views, so important when we're
facing a pandemic, to figure out how we talk not at each other, but to
each other , right ?

Jane Pauley: Yeah, I kind of think it's personality driven , and as long as there are
very strong and effective personalities who have an agenda that is
otherwise, I think that the status quo you describe is going to stay.
But I think the wind can shift . I've never – I haven’t had that thou ght
that I've just articulated work . So in the long run, I'm very optimistic
that we regain the trust my parents had in Dr. Collins, who was our
pediatrician, so but it can be undone quickly , and doing it up is
probably going to take some time.

Margaret Fl inter: Well, let me turn if I can to Marc Hackett, the CEO and Executive
Leader of the Jane Pauley Community Health Center. And Mar c , I'm
curious Jane has been very modest about the impact of her name,
maybe in its public awareness and recognition back in our hometown.
But I wonder, from your perspective, what difference has it made to
the awareness and acceptance of the services that you are delivering
there in your community to have Jane's name connected to this work
and organization?

Marc Hackett: Sure. Thanks, Margaret , and to Mark to back up your point , I hear it
every day and I hate hearing this news. But we're always here. We're
the best kept secret in town and we don't want to be the best kept
secret in town. People once they get in our doors, they s ee the
services that they're able to offer and Jane's name just opens up
doors for us. Jane, you will be tickled with this. But like we have a new
employee orientation every two weeks, and I had one just this
morning, and I gave out door prizes, little Sta rbucks gift cards, and I
asked them Jane, do you know who Jane Pauley is and where she
works now? And it's interesting some of the responses I get.

Jane Pauley: Okay, we'll talk later but I'll bet a lot of them. I'll bet you would say
and they just drew a blank.

Marc Hackett: Yeah, there are certain executives if they don't know who you are, I'll
just pass on them. Some of the younger crowd , yep . She's still out
there tonight on CBS on Sunday Morning .

Jane Pauley

Jane Pauley: I'll just say my sister came back for a hig h school reunion , and the
directions to the location featured a turn left at the Jane Pauley and
the Jane Pauley has become a franchise irrespective of who I am.

Marc Hackett: That's nice to hear. But yeah, Margaret, she's opened up doors . Jane
hasn't done anything out of the ordinary that was put her name in
jeopardy or whatnot. But she's a local girl, just really well respected in
the community here , and that is really – she looked at it as a very
positive, having her name affiliated with an organization.

Mark Masselli: That's great. You know, boy, this last two years had such an enormous
impact on everyone, but certainly young people and so many lost
opportunities that have happened in their lives. Jane thinking back if
you'd lost your junior and senior y ear, what that would have meant in
high school and so Mar c , you know, the behavioral health needs have
risen up and you're seeing a doubling of the number of patients. Tell
us a little bit about how you're navigating in these very difficult times.
In this particular area , young people have been so profoundly
impacted.

Marc Hackett: As you know this community health center model, we provide primary
care , behavioral health care and dental care to anyone regardless
their ability to pay. It's not free clinics, but they do get a deep
discount on a sliding fee scale . We get F ederal funding now even
cover those expenses. But we have seen a huge uptick in behavioral
health needs. I think we employ over 40 behavioral health providers
amongst all of our sites , and tha t's still not enough. We have
challenges to where sometimes we have to close panels so they don't
take on new patients just so they can treat the established patients
that they have. Now, during the pandemic , telehealth was our saving
grace. We actually we nt from practically 0% using telehealth and
telehealth is basically using over the phone or video for a call and
went from 0% to 85%. And 2020 was really high. It's gotten that back
down about 30%. But they never go away now . Patients have gotten
used to i t , and like you said we have seen a huge uptick in behavioral
healthcare needs as people are slowly getting back to a normal life
again and coming out and just having some a lot of behavioral health
issues. We mentioned before when a patient comes in for p rimary
care need, the percentage is around 70% . 70% of the patients that
come in for a primary care need has a behavioral health issue as well.

Margaret Flinter: Marc , as you know, one of the great deterrents to people accessing
health care is worries abou t finances, worries about insurance being
uninsured, and it looks like you've done a great job not only in
delivering care FDA people registered as patients, but then getting the
Hoosiers to sign up for health insurance through the marketplace ,
which often is the first step to people feeling like they can go for
health care . What has worked from your point of view ? What's been

Jane Pauley

your successful strategy there?

Marc Hackett: Sure . We employ at our larger sites kind of something called an HOA
and I don't like H OAs , as far as for where you live. But HOA for us is
Health Outreach Advocates , they actually sit down with these patients
and discover, hey, did you know that you're eligible for this insurance
program that's offered through the state and so they sign peo ple up
right on the spot. We don't have to send them away to some other
office downtown . We talked about trust earlier. They trust that
services that are offered within their local community health center ,
and so the more services we can offer on our doors , the more they're
going to take advantage of the opportunities there. We've seen huge
upticks not only in primary care, but behavioral healthcare and dental
services, we've actually had records the last two years we've went
from record in 2020 of 94,000 v isits and about 25,000 patients. Last
year, we went over 102,000 visits and 26,000 unique patients. So the
need is out there , and we're just scratching the surface sadly. Like
Mark had mentioned earlier, this community health center model
nationwide is now over 30 million patients that are being seen at a
health center across the country.

Mark Masselli: You know, patients have worries and Mar c , you probably have some
worries and Jane can holder you as well . I'm asking this question. How
many nights are you up thinking we better not mess anything up
J ane's name is on the front door?

Marc Hackett: Yeah, I've had conversations with Jane about that . We've done this
but no marketing strategy , and this year, we actually brought in a
marketing team to help us to ev en take it a step further. And sadly,
when you get into marketing like that, you start getting into
copyright, legal stuff and things of that nature. So I've had to contact
Jane say , okay, they're wanting the copyright, logo or name or
whatnot. So we're hi ring already man out. But I remind all staff that
the new tagline I use today, we've grown so large that today, just
today, we're going to have 400 people show up at our Jane Pauley
Community Health Center door, one of our sites, so we have 400
chances to change somebody's life, and we hope we change it in a
positive way.

Margaret Flinter: Well, that is spoken with True Health Center spirit , and I want to
acknowledge that our organizations both have been around for a
th
w hile we will celebrate our 50 anniver sary in May of this year and I
think that was just a few years before the policy center s tarted. But as
th
we hit that 50 mark, we're really looking at what's on the h orizon,
and today 1300 organizations, almost 30 million patients, but where
do you see thi s work of primary care, really high quality primary care
that is accessible to people in their communities? Where's it going
from your perspective?

Jane Pauley

Marc Hackett: Well, as Jane would probably attest, and people told me to slow down
but we keep expanding bec ause we know that the need is out there ,
and so I have a hard time saying no if one of our hospital partners
comes up and says, Hey, I see how it's working there in the east side
of Indianapolis. We want that to work in our communities , and so
we're always open to that. But as we all know what's going on right
now. We call it the great resignation. There's a lot of nurses and other
folks that are just getting out of healthcare. This burnout rate is so
high. We try to do best we can to all honor our current employees and
let them know how important they are not only to us an organization,
but for the community and the patients that we serve and so if there's
anything that keeps me up at night is thinking about people actually
leaving the healthcare field and having to replace them , so because
the crop of experienced health care providers is growing slimmer and
slimmer .

Mark Masselli: Let me just get one final question in for Jane, before we go, the media
have an important role in educating the audience and we s o enjoy
watching you every week on CBS Sunday Morning, in your award
winning career, what changes have you seen in how mental health
stories are covered and presented ?

Jane Pauley: I still see the momentum. Even now, I as the host of Sunday Morning ,
you kn ow, the show may be built and changed according to events so
that I oftentimes see the show at the same time viewers do. And one
recent Sunday Morning , watching the show, realize that th ere were
three separate stories, profiles of -- that featured some asp ect of
emotional or mental health whether it was a celebrity or an ordinary
person, the context, and each of them were quite different. But three,
and I wondered, when did this happen? Then I recently appeared as a
moderator on a panel with three people fr om the business
community, and two CEOs of big successful Hi Tech startups. These
were, in particular to men in their 30s 40s, who were being open
about their issues. The changes are happening so rapidly now that
well, in I'm just on the sidelines watching it happen.

Margaret Flinter: We want to thank you, Jane and Mar c for your time . Congratulations
on the great work that you each are doing and that you are doing
together , and thank you to our audience for joining us. You can learn
more about Conversations on Health Care and sign up for our email
updates at www.chc.radio.com . Thanks so much for joining us.

Mark Masselli: Yeah, we really appreciate both of you . Mar c , congratulations on all
your work. Jane, thanks so m uch for the support you've given in
Indianapolis, but also the hope you've given to all of us across the
country that there are strong advocates like you who will help us
speak truth to power and encourage more people to take note of the
work that we're do ing. So thanks both of you.

Jane Pauley

Jane Pauley: Thank you.

Margaret Flinter: So that as part of the movement.

Jane Pauley: For sure.

Marc Hackett: Thanks for having us.

Jane Pauley: Take care.

[Music]

Mark Masselli: At Conversations on Health Care, we want our au dience to be truly in
the know when it comes to the facts about health care reform and
policy. Lori Robertson is an award winning journalist and Managing
Editor of FactCheck.org, a nonpartisan, nonprofit consumer advocate
for voters that aim to reduce the level of deception in U.S. politics.
Lori, what have you got for us this week?

Lori Robertson: Myocarditis or inflammation of the heart muscle is most often caused
by a viral infection. Research shows that infection with SARS CoV - 2
the Coronavirus that cau ses COVID - 19 increases the risk of
m yocarditis across age groups, but m yocarditis has also been
identified as a rare side effect of the mRNA COVID - 19 vaccines. Most
cases of vaccine associated m yocarditis have been observed in
adolescents and young males , ages 12 to 24 , following a second dose.
According to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Study, post
vaccine m yocarditis is most frequent in males 16 to 17 years old, with
about 106 cases per million doses in the U . S. That study and others
have foun d that compared with classic viral m yocarditis , post vaccine
m yocarditis appears to resolve faster and have better clinical
outcomes although investigations into potential long term effects are
ongoing. Symptoms such as chest pain, shortness of breath,
pal pitations or fatigue usually appear within a week of vaccination
and resolve within a few days.

Case studies show that most of them have recovered with rest and
Ibuprofen . No one in the U . S . is known to have died from vaccine
th
associated m yocarditis accord ing to the CDC as of January 13 . In
contrast, as of late February, there have been nearly 5 , 800 COVID - 19
deaths among people ages 18 to 29. However, the rare risk of
m yocarditis continues to be misleadingly used to argue that COVID - 19
vaccines are danger ous, and that young males and children are better
off without them. The CDC concluded as recently as February 4 that
the benefits of both mRNA COVID - 19 vaccines far outweigh the risks
of m yocarditis even in younger males. It benefit risk analysis
estimated that for every million males between the ages of 18 and 39,
who were vaccinated with a second dose, about 18 00 and 1900
hospitalizations would be avoided with the Moderna and Pfizer -
BioNT ech vaccines respectively . That's my FatC heck for this week. I'm

Jane Pauley

Lor i Robertson, Managing Editor of FactCheck.org.

[Music]

Marianne O’Hare: FactCheck.org is committed to factual accuracy from the country’s
major political players and is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy
Center at the University of Pennsylvania. If y ou have a fact that you’d
like check, email us at www.chc.radio.com . We’ll have FactCheck.org’s
Lori Robertson check it out for you here on Conversations on Health Care.

[Music]

Margaret Flinter: Each week Conversat ions highlights a bright idea about how to make
wellness a part of our communities and everyday lives. People living
in Sub Saharan Africa have tougher odds at overcoming diseases , and
the problem is not just the lack of access to health care providers. Bu t
once someone is diagnosed with an illness, access to vital life saving
medicine is out of reach for many who are sick.

Gregory Rockson: Africa has some of the highest drug prices in the world, simply
because it's a free pricing market. So you can take a single medicine,
and two pharmacists next to each other will sell that same drug at
widely different prices.

Margaret Flinter: Gregory Rockson is the founder of mPharma, a nonprofit organization
seeking to address inequities in drug prices in Africa and th e supply
chain that often puts these life saving drugs out of reach. mPharma
decided to tackle the problem by redirecting the supply chain that
forces small independent pharmacies and clinics to source their own
drugs and health offers these entities the c hance to outsource their
procurement for pharmaceuticals.

Gregory Rockson: We realized that if we could begin to bring together all these
independent pharmacies and remove the pressure that they have to
face in sourcing their own drugs, we can begin to add ress the issue of
medicine availability and affordability.

Margaret Flinter: They help improve the drug procurement supply chain by collecting
data on actual drug sales, which allows healthcare entities to avoid
over or under stocking, and it reduces their vulnerability to fraud and
corruption.

Gregory Rockson: Not only are we taking ownership of the supply chain, we're also
providing the financing to purchase the inventory. We offer them a
simple value proposition pay only when you dispense the drugs
beyon d having the products available. We actively help them manage
their inventory.

Margaret Flinter: Rockson says another important benefit more affordable drug

Jane Pauley
supplies help clinicians better manage patient outcomes. mPharma
was a 2019 recipient of the Skoll Foundation's Entrepreneurship
Award . m P harma , a nonprofit entity that utilizes reliable data on drug
usage eliminates fraud and waste in the drug supply chains makes life
saving medications more readily available to some of the world's most
vulnerable peop le, improves outcomes and saves money. Now that's
a bright idea.
[Music]
Mark Masselli: You've been listening to Conversations on Health Care. I'm Mark
Masselli.
Margaret Flinter: And I'm Margaret Flinter.
Mark Masselli: Peace and Health .
[Music]
Marianne O’Hare : Conversations on Health Care is recorded at WESU at Wesleyan
University, streaming live at www.chcradio.com , iTunes, or wherever
you listen to podcasts. If you have comments, please email us at [email protected] or find us on Facebook or Twitter. We love
hearing from you. This show is brought to you by the Community Health Center .
[Music]