New Ways to Solve Big Health Problems: Lola Adedokun, Aspen Global Innovators Group

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

Speaker 1 ( 00:04 ):
Is there a way to encourage and support new ways of thinking to solve our biggest problems? What
approaches right now are transforming health and development and who's driving them?
Speaker 2 ( 00:14 ):
The way that we work is focusing on policy and advocacy. When we think about how decisions are
made, especially at the political level, what we tend to overlook is the investment in activism, policy
leaders with deep expertise who are telling their stories, but also talking about solutions.
Speaker 3 ( 00:38 ):
Our guest today thinks and acts to bring answers to these questions. Lola Adedokun is the executive
director of the Aspen Global Innovators Group and the co - chair of the Aspen Institute Forum on Women
and Girls.
Speaker 2 ( 00:51 ):
We want to continue to promote that way of leading, knowing that the experts are truly women who
are advancing gender equity and justice and their allies, so we're passionate, as you might can tell from
my voice, but in our community about continuing to demand not just equity but justice as women
continue to lead and responding to crises and pandemics around the globe.
Speaker 3 ( 01:18 ):
This is Conversations on Health Care.
Speaker 1 ( 01:29 ):
Well, Lola, welcome to Conversations on Health Care.
Speaker 2 ( 01:32 ):
It's a privilege to be here.
Speaker 1 ( 01:33 ):
Oh, that's great, and we're so glad to be with you at the Aspen Ideas Health and hear you speak about
the Aspen Global Innovators Group, which is a policy group of the institute. You lead this team that
advances a portfolio of programs focused in on health and prosperity in the United States and around
the globe. I'm wondering if you could just fill our audience in on its history and mission?
Speaker 2 ( 01:57 ):
Absolutely. The Aspen Global Innovators Group has been in existence actually for over 30 years. The
founding sort of visionary of the group, Peggy Clark, started it and is one of the visionaries behind the
institute writ large, but it was designed really to amplify the voices and expertise of global leaders who
have a local experience, proximate experience, and who also tend to be overlooked when it comes to
designing solutions that work best for them.
[NEW_PARAGRAPH]In the last 10 years, we have launched a number of fellowship programs that enable
and strengthen the power and visibility of these leaders by investing in their communications capacity,
connecting them to the right kinds of funders and actors that enable them to replicate and scale their

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

innovations, and it's been incredibly successful. We now have a robust, vibrant community of leaders in
55 countries in the Americas, Asia, the Caribbean, who are doing incredible work. There are about 200
fellows in our network and what's really exciting about our programming is the fact that especially in
this moment as we continue to recover from the trauma of a global pandemic and also work to rebuild
systems that engage and embed new trust, we have fellows in the US who are now tackling similar
challenges but are working side by side our partners around the globe.

Speaker 3 ( 03:31 ):
Well, it's incredibly important work, and I know that part of your efforts with Aspen are focused on what
you call powerful women who are redesigning health systems that better meet the needs of families. I'd
love for you to talk a little bit about what are, I'm sure everyone is completely an individual, but what
are some of the common traits that you see or maybe some of the common backgrounds, pathways? Is
there a theme that you see there with the group?

Speaker 2 ( 03:57 ):
Yeah, I mean, we know that engaging women leaders authentically will result in improved and
accelerated solutions to challenges. We know that because women are actually at the front lines all the
time in crisis and in the day - to - day services. We know that women make up the majority of the
healthcare workforce globally and we see the impact of that.
( 04:27 ):
However, what we do see, and that what we're working on tackling for the Aspen Forum on Women and
Girls and with other partners at the Aspen Institute is ensuring that women's leadership rises to the top.
What tends to happen is that leadership tends to be again, overlooked and ignored and the way that
they lead, so I want to sort of narrow down on that, the way that women lead is different and the
skillsets that they bring are now becoming more valued. We used to call them soft skills. These are
characteristics of empathy, of compassion, of being flexible and adaptable and of bringing community
together in ways that are authentic and so we want to continue to promote that way of leading,
knowing that the experts are truly women who are advancing gender equity and justice and their allies,
so we're passionate, as you might can tell from my voice, but in our community about continuing to
demand not just equity but justice as women continue to lead in responding to crises and pandemics
around the globe.

Speaker 1 ( 05:37 ):
Well, those are so fundamental to a fair and just society, and speaking of challenges, there are
numerous legal and political challenges to progressive thinking, and you've written in your annual
report, and I wanted to quote that, "The Supreme Court's recent ruling contradicts the idea of equality
in the United States Constitution by denying women and girls the ability to make their own decisions
about their bodies and families and threatening body sovereignty." Wondering, how are you navigating
these times including the headwinds against equality and equity efforts?

Speaker 2 ( 06:16 ):
That's a great question and it's of chief concern to many of the leaders in our group. So the way that we
work is focusing on policy and advocacy. When we think about how decisions are made, especially at the
political level, what we tend to overlook is the investment in activism, policy leaders with deep expertise
who are telling their stories, but also talking about solutions, and so for the work that we do, we really

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

are working to speak from places of privilege. Where I sit at the Aspen Institute is a place, an institution
of privilege to work alongside those who have been in the fight for decades to align with them and use
our resources and use our platforms to advance this policy agenda.
( 07:11 ):
Finally, I'd add this is a global problem and one of those challenges that now the US is humbled to work
alongside other countries that have similar reductive policies, and that is why we work community to
community with fellows around the globe, to ensure that we are having and learning from those who've
been in this fight for much longer than we have in the US.

Speaker 1 ( 07:36 ):
Well, are there any other global groups that you're working with that share in the mission and also are
sort of centers for this energy and creativity that you're cultivating?

Speaker 2 ( 07:50 ):
I am very lucky to have incredibly passionate allies in this work. Partners in Health, they are an incredible
organization working globally as well, founded by Paul Farmer and other leaders. Our partner, we
partner with them and the University of Global Health Equity that's based in Rwanda. I want to give
Rwanda as an example. After they recovered from the genocide or as part of the solution, they made
very clear policy commitments to ensure that women's leadership was embedded in every sector of
government. If you don't make it a policy, it will not happen, and they have showed that they can
actually change the demographics and change outcomes so they can tell a full story and a throughline
around gender equity and justice that we're incredibly proud of.
( 08:42 ):
Another organization, I'll just name Global Health Corps, another leadership development organization
and ally in our work, and there are many more, but we know that we are not alone in this work. We
know that we have to partner with academicians, with policy and advocacy organizations, and with
senior leadership at the government level, so we partner with anyone who has a voice and who is
committed to this work and ready to face the backlash.

Speaker 1 ( 09:10 ):
Wonderful.

Speaker 3 ( 09:11 ):
Well, I think it's an incredibly impressive part of the work that you're making sure local leaders are at the
forefront, that they're the ones designing solutions that work for their local populations. I think the
grant - making and change agent world hasn't always been at the forefront of recognizing those
individuals because they may not have the resume or the particular background, they may, they may not
have the background the others that they're used to have. What techniques are you using both to adjust
the mindset on the part of the change agents and the grantmakers, but also on the part of giving people
the confidence to step forward and say, "Yes, I'm ready to take on this leadership"? Seems like both of
those are really important in this work.

Speaker 2 ( 09:54 ):

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

They are. Part of it is standing strong and being clear about our commitment and also being willing to
give cover to organizations that may not be in a position to speak loudly around these issues, but we can
on their behalf, so we do a lot of that work where we will and I will use our voice to write, to speak on
key platforms about the centering of women's expertise in all areas.
( 10:28 ):
I'd also note that in the funding community we engage in a lot of thought partnership and thought
leadership and we lean into those who've been fighting this fight for us and their wisdom and expertise.
We've contributed also to a number of reports that have been impactful and bringing people along
other partners who wouldn't stand as strong in the issues but with the data matters, so we are working
very closely with other partners who are helping us inform that data.
( 10:56 ):
One partner who I have to name is Peggy Clark who leads the ICRW, which is focused on research
related to women globally and she's been an incredible contributor to all the data it takes to convince
people around the globe to really start to change the way that policies are both designed for women
and also implement.

Speaker 1 ( 11:25 ):
Well, she's a great leader. We're seeing the federal government taking this approach that the US Agency
for International Development now stresses the need to shift power to local actors and the need for
inclusive development lens. Do you think the entire Western nonprofit sector is accepting this
perspective or is there some, let's just say, resistance?

Speaker 2 ( 11:52 ):
That is a great question. I'll start with the intention and I think the intention for a lot of federal agencies
and global donor agencies is there. The challenge is really a fundamental question of trust. One of the
questions we get is, "Well, how do we know this organization can really do the work? How do we know
that they can absorb our dollars? How do we know that they can achieve the outcomes that they say
that they can achieve?"
( 12:24 ):
So the way that we work is to serve again as that cover support and advocate for these local
organizations. It's all about implementation, so while I'm excited, really am, that the global health
development community has finally arrived at a commitment to supporting local organizations, we now
need to work together to figure out how to do that effectively and how to lead from behind, which is it's
not the typical colonialist approach. This is requiring a step back and a rethink of what support really
looks like and what a handoff of leadership really looks like, so that's where the rubber hits the road,
and we're engaging with a number of implementing partners around the globe who are tackling bravely
this recalibration of where they fit, some of the largest implementing agencies around the globe, and I'm
pleased to be part of those conversations and I'm excited about the fact that they're authentically doing
their best to make real this articulated commitment.

Speaker 1 ( 13:36 ):
Do you have a scorecard or developed some mechanism? I know in the environmental movement
people are trying to frame up, "How can I assess where they are?" It's helpful for the organization 'cause
you need to know what you need to do to improve. Any thoughts around that?

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

Speaker 2 ( 13:57 ):
I do have thoughts. So of course, there are the sustainable development goals, which are a helpful
framework and guide for governments and parties to sort of align themselves around aspirational, but
some realizable goals.
( 14:15 ):
With that said, I think again, this leans into valuing other ways of knowing knowledge and expertise and
trusting organizations that have already proven themselves. They may not use the same metrics that
have been designed typically in the US and in Geneva and in places that are not close to where the work
is, however they have evidence of impact, so I'm on the fence. I think it's very important to have a
framework and a guide and a pathway that the globe agrees on like the SDGs, but then there needs to
be that nuance around what other meaningful metrics that are more local that we need to collect and so
we're working with our colleagues and payers to think about what that means and so we'll continue on
that venture. But again, if organizations have proven themselves already, have trust in the community,
aligning them to deliver on goals that enable them to replicate and scale their interventions, that's the
most important sort of priority, I believe, [inaudible 00:15:23].

Speaker 1 ( 14:15 ):
That's great.

Speaker 3 ( 15:24 ):
Lola, we often say in healthcare that all healthcare is local and building healthier communities certainly
requires local civic engagement and I've read about one of your projects here in the US, one of your
healthy communities fellows projects who founded a nonprofit in San Antonio that was using garden -
based learning as a strategy for building healthier communities, but doing it with that civic engagement
lens. Tell us a little more about that project. You have such a diversity of projects, but tell us a little bit
about that one.

Speaker 2 ( 15:57 ):
That's Stephen Lucke. He runs Gardopia Gardens. He's a fantastic leader. This is why we love the work
and our leaders. We are public health experts and you know that addressing health and public health
and improving the well - being of people in community requires or enables many entry points and so his
entry point is around increasing access to healthy foods and engaging local communities in what it is to
produce food that fits their diets, but also is healthy and accessible and fun to kind of be a part of the
process. There's joy there and Stephen brings that joy and that's what we seek out in our healthy
communities fellows, individuals who may not see themselves as health actors or health leaders
necessarily, but who bring a commitment, not just a community, but a certain amount of joy to the
possibility of making community stronger and better by leaning into the assets that already exist there.
( 16:56 ):
We've got other fellows who are doing work, one fellow who is really exciting, he's doing work, he's a
former professional baseball player. He's based in Alaska and he has worked with young people,
especially folks in the African American community, young kids to engage them in athletics and to use
that as the doorway to start to talk about strengthening community and their leadership roles and how
they can be champions in their own society and it's just such an empowering way to lead and we get to
be in the work of solutions and so we are continuing that to grow that out with a regional model,
making sure that there's critical mass of leaders who are on that same train who can support each other

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

'cause I can't say enough, this is very hard work. We have leaders also who are recovering from the
pandemic and the traumas of just trying to be leaders at the moment and revive communities and they
have each other now and so I'm a chief advocate of [inaudible 00:18:00] who are committed, who have
risen above, rose to the occasion, and continue to lead in creative and positive ways.

Speaker 3 ( 18:09 ):
So I've got to ask you that, I'm so curious, how do you find these fellows or how do they find you?
What's the combination of social networking or recruitment nomination? Tell us about that.

Speaker 2 ( 18:20 ):
Great question. So we rely heavily on our network of fellows to nominate. That's our first and they know
who they are.
( 18:28 ):
Secondly, we reach out to our network and other leading organizations that embody the sort of
characteristics that we want to replicate, meaning they're collaborative organizations, they're
committed to health and well - being. They evolve, they're adaptable, and they understand the
importance of leadership, so we reach out to organizations like that.
( 18:46 ):
Then we are always on the lookout. We, as you know, are committed to equity, so if we know people or
there are names, we are reading the news, my whole team, we're very much looking out for new or not
necessarily new talent, the talent that's been overlooked, so we're reading and watching and keeping
ourselves abreast of the change - makers around the globe who could benefit from a connection and a
partnership with the Aspen Institute.

Speaker 1 ( 19:13 ):
Well, I want to talk a little bit about measurement as well, but before that, Margaret and I just got back
from San Diego where we're at a meeting of all of the health centers in the country and fundamental to
their organization is that the majority of their board members are patients themselves and you just see
this upswelling of leaders all across the country representing the 31 million patients that are seeing,
majority are from diverse communities, almost all living in poverty, but the drawing from that strength is
so critical.
( 19:54 ):
But I do want to focus about the nonprofit sector that doing good isn't enough, that we need to show
measurable outcomes, that really what's interesting about Healthy Community Fellows is that they're
tackling problems from all angles, technology, food recovery, food access. How do you go about
measuring outcomes with such diverse approaches?

Speaker 2 ( 20:22 ):
That's a great question. So I'll start with that is not our mission. Our mission really is they've already
proven themselves and their impact, meaning we've read their reports, we talk to other trusted
members in that community that know that they've experienced measurable improvements in the
community well - being marker, and those metrics vary, as you've noted, from community to community.
( 20:47 ):

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

What we are working on doing is ensuring that when we tell the story of a fellow, that they're able
actually to tell their own story of impact and naming the metrics that mean the most to them and the
ways in which they work that enable them to have that impact, so it's very individualized. With that said,
there are key themes, as you know, the fact that there is representation on their board that looks
different than your typical nonprofit, that the leadership of their organization is creating a hiring plan
strategy that is more representative than standard nonprofit partners and that they are continuing to
grow and scale their programming in ways that are valued and responsive to community.
( 21:43 ):
So that's really what we're looking at, but again, it's a bigger conversation to have with federal partners
so that they can start to embed some of those metrics in their own efforts because a lot of money gets
wasted at the back levels and misdirected only because there are favorites, let's be honest, in this world,
and those favorites tend to dominate the conversation, so what we're aiming to do is position these
organizations in front of our national state level partners so that they're also on the shortlist for high -
quality programs and projects that are proven and that need that extra investment to start to codify
metrics that matter at the local level.

Speaker 3 ( 22:28 ):
Although, I wonder if you could also speak a little bit to the people maybe coming up behind the fellows
that you have, the next generation of innovators perhaps? I'm really curious, and I think any of us
who've been fortunate enough to be in fellowships that foster leadership might also say that there's a
skillset around innovation, right?

Speaker 2 ( 22:52 ):
Yes.

Speaker 3 ( 22:53 ):
How you take that brilliant idea, actually make it work in practice, move it forward. Have you, as part of
the fellows program, develop sort of a curriculum around that, around teaching people how to innovate
or to go back and help others? Some people do seem to come to it somewhat naturally, probably most
of the humans need a little more skill - building to actually go forth and innovate. Tell us how you're
approaching that.

Speaker 2 ( 23:19 ):
That's a great question. We do have a curriculum in our fellowship program that enables our fellows to
again, deliver on their vision of innovation, whatever that concept is. Typically, their idea is already in
motion, but having access, for example, to an executive coach as well as a media coach and someone
who can help them respond to other technical requests along the way, that's kind of the support that
we offer.
( 23:48 ):
We also are committed to... This is why many of our successful selected fellows come from our existing
pool, meaning that nominees, their names come from that pool because they understand and they
serve as a support network locally to enable them to continue to innovate, if you will. I want to pause on
the word "innovation" because typically when we think of innovation at the highest levels, we think of
tech innovation, digital innovation. In our fellows group, much of the innovation is in the how of
delivery, not just creating a nice flash - in - the - pan technical innovation that can't be scaled without

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

multimillion dollars, and so I wanted sort of remind the health community that innovation, new
technologies, critically important, but unpacking the how of reaching people and ensuring that those
innovations are reaching those that meet it the most, that's really where more emphasis needs to be
focused on and more dollars in the how and less of the what.

Speaker 1 ( 25:02 ):
Well, let me pick up on that theme of innovation because early in your career you co - founded Boys
Speak Out, which is a nonprofit organization with an emphasis on emotional literacy for middle and high
school boys. How does that program work and what results have you seen?

Speaker 2 ( 25:20 ):
Yes, that was an incredible program to lead and be a part of. It came out of the fact that at that time,
this was, I'll say 2007, 2008, and earlier, there was a lot of investment in girls' leadership. There was a lot
of understanding that girls needed support. With that said, there was so little said about the need for
boys. This is work we were leading in New Hampshire and the surrounding states, that's where we
launched, and we just wanted to ensure that boys had a space, a safe place to articulate their own
experiences, and to find that championship and support that was needed for them to thrive. We scaled
that work to Atlanta and so now we partner with schools and identify groups, community groups, and
young men who are really interested in trying to connect with one another in new and different ways
and also enabling schools to understand how to support young boys as they sort of navigate the
complexity of our current educational climate, which is quite scary.

Speaker 3 ( 26:34 ):
Absolutely, it is what is on all of our minds these days. Well, just a few moments ago, if I can just go
back, we were talking about the huge portion of the healthcare workforce globally that is made up of
women, but that isn't reflected in the senior leadership positions, which has a lot to do with what the
priorities are. I think it's only a quarter of the senior leadership positions that healthcare are held by
women. How are you focusing on that through your work and looking to change that?

Speaker 2 ( 27:07 ):
I appreciate that question. First and foremost, I believe in walking the walk, so I am within my own team
making sure that we are investing in recruiting women leaders early in their career and growing in their
career and trying to understand what supports they need to thrive. Then within our community, we
remind our fellows all the time that we will not succeed without a centering of gender equity in our
work, gender, racial, all sort of equity moments, but gender specifically, so when we note growth within
organizations, we ask those questions, "What's your priority? How are you responding? What are you
explicitly doing? How are you telling your story around advancing gender equity in your own work?"
Then at the highest levels, I've had the privilege of being at global tables and other sort of national
leadership tables and serving on boards where I'm sure to bring that voice and that centering to all of
the decision - making tables.
( 28:09 ):
But as I said at the start, the key is if it's not national policy, if it's not embedded in state policy with a
clear plan and funding that supports women and institutions that have been typically male - dominated
at the senior level, we will not succeed in advancing in this movement. So there was a recent report that
came out about how many women are serving on boards, and they're clearly not enough, and so when I

Transcript by Rev.com

This transcript was exported on Oct 20, 2023 - view latest version here .

speak to our communities and partners about rising to the occasion and rising to the need, now I hold
myself accountable and I serve on a number of boards to be that critical representative, but then reach
out to our community and network to open the doors for other leaders who typically wouldn't see
themselves as board leader or as leaders at all, which is always surprising to me when we have to
reinforce to other women leaders, "You are a leader. I know you've seen others and they don't look like
you, but you are, in fact, a leader."

Speaker 1 ( 29:11 ):
Hmm. Well, Lola, thank you for joining us for the voice of empowerment that you bring to your work
and thanks to our audience. Be sure to go online to chcradio.com to sign up for email updates. Again,
thank you for being with us today.

Speaker 2 ( 29:27 ):
Thank you all. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 ( 29:32 ):
This copyrighted program is produced by Conversations on Healthcare and cannot be reproduced or
retransmitted in whole or in part without the express written consent from Community Health Center,
Inc. The views expressed by guests are their own and they do not necessarily reflect the opinion of
Conversations on Healthcare or its affiliated entities.

Transcript by Rev.com